BurnLounge.com Launches Viral Marketing Effort in New York City

I was invited by a friend to New York City’s Coffee Shop Lounge, where about 150 “b” and “c-level” independent music industry executives, djs, artists, performers, songwriters and ancillary music hanger-ons from all walks of the industry gathered to listen to a pitch from New York’s most recent “Music 2.0” (an acronym describing the post-crash Internet music economy) start-up, BurnLounge.com.

The company launched a multi-level, viral marketing campaign to have designated sponsors (otherwise known as “music moguls” according to their literature) sign-up partner’s interested in hosting a downloadable music store on their own web sites using BurnLounge.com’s music download store package.

A flashy, slickly produced, techno-laden infomercial was shown mid-way through the get together on the bar’s flat-panel tv’s, giving the crowd a generic look at how one can get involved in “making money” (as one of the principals emphasized in a follow-up speech) by selling music downloads as a registered partner in BurnLounge’s affiliate program. From the video, I learned about the three distinct tiers an affiliate partner can sign-up for; the Music Fan, The Affiliate and The Music Mogul.

The first tier, Music Fan, is for the general consumer or music fan who wants to feature tracks of his/her fav artists by embedding links to specific titles from BurnLounge’s catalog on their personal web page. The more tracks sold, the more points earned for redemption on BurnLounge.com’s site for prizes distributed as products or downloads.

The second tier, the Affiliate, is a program that turns downloads into cash. Targeted to small and medium sized web sites, BurnLounge will license their technology (basically a fully-functional download store with complete backend and transaction technology) for a richer user experience. Take this package and share a percentage of your download revenues with BurnLounge.

The third tier, Music Mogul, has a chief sponsor (or “mogul”) signing up a number of other web-based partners to create their own mini-network of sites. The Music Mogul manages those relationships, benefitting by taking a commission of sales of all tracks on his/her own download store as well as a percentage of all transactions within the mini-network of sites he/she is credited with signing into the program.

I admire BurnLounge.com for coming up with a way to spread their brand and using web services to generate sales with this multi-level marketing strategy, however, there are a few kinks in the armor if anyone thinks they’re going to make millions tomorrow from music downloads.

Mom and Pop are up against a formidable array of legacy download providers who currently have a tight strangelhold on the market and benefit from preferential treatment because of their size, traffic and revenue generating capability.

Take into consideration the folowing:

Today, Reuter’s reported from MIDEM, the world’s largest music industry conference going taking place this week in Cannes, France, that with over 355 digital download stores in existence, many music industry executives are talking about the bubble bursting, afterwhich industry consolodation takesplace.

The article reported Napster is stating over $100 Million in cash reserves and 500,000 registered subscribers paying $9.95 a month. Not bad work if you can get it. One web site generates all those subscription fees! And, people said that would “never happen!” Well…it’s happening!

Real Networks claims 1.2 Million subs to its Superpass and Music store subscription service. Today, I cancelled my account because I can’t play Real files on an iPod, and frankly, I’m not interested in listening to radio content from sub-saharan Africa. I guess there are many people who need or want that kind of programming. More power to’em, I say! I love Real. I even own stock in Real, but until interoperability takes place, I’m on the sidelines for now.
The iTunes store, benefitting from Apple’s powerful marketing muscle and convergent digital lifestyle strategy, have to date sold over 500 Million downloads and almost 40 Million iPods. Remember, iPods can only play AAC and MP3 format. Sales of digital media players that play all other formats, including Sony’s A-Trac, Microsoft’s Windows Media and Real Networks Real Media lag far behind.

You cannot purchase songs from Burnlounge, unless they were in .mp3 format, to play on an iPod. It’s common knowledge that Apple will not license their proprietary AAC encoding format to other companies as they protect their idea by maintaining their market share and dominance. This single fact slices your potential download market in half or even more! No one at the event said anything about that. All they said is, “you can make money too.”
In addition, consider this:

BurnLounge.com license their tracks from LoudEye, a digital distributor. The company charges a (according to the biz dev person I spoke with on the phone two weeks ago) $100,000 upfront payment to help a client launch an online store using their technology with an additional $10,000 a month licensing fee to keep it running and have access to their music database.
The woman I spoke to broke down the commission structure for me. First, the label take is about $0.70 cents per download. Then, LoudEye takes between, I think she said, $0.12 to $0.18 cents a transaction, depending on the deal you broker with them.

So, for arguments sake, let’s say it’s $0.15 cents. BurnLounge.com takes $0.05 cents per transaction when you sign up with them. So, between the labels, LoudEye and BurnLounge.com, the total take before you see any money is a grand total of $0.90 cents. I think there’s even another split of a few cents for the publisher, or something like that, but don’t quote me on it, because I’m not exactly sure. Maybe that comes out of the label slice. I’d have to research it a bit more to be exact.
If you’re an affiliate, you have to share that $0.10 cents with your “mogul,” leaving you with 5 or 6 cents on the dollar. Now, figure in your overhead, web maintenance, employees, marketing costs, etc…

You’re making a few pennies on the dollar. You’ll have to sell hundreds of thousands of downloads to make any kind of real money. After marketing and promotion costs and other costs of doing business, it just doesn’t make fiscal sense to open a BurnLounge store. I’d rather go out and find investors and compete on a level playing field, then give BurnLounge my money and have to work ten times as hard to make ten times less than I could if I were and independent download store owner.
The BurnLounge folk say one of their partners, a Hawaain-based lawyer, made $50,000 dollars in commissions last month. His store consists of hard to find Hawaiian music, as I’ve been told. And, we don’t know what the terms of his deal are. Does he own the actual music? Is the music he’s sold considered major label music or is it niche music that only he has the rights to?

If you’re one of those 140 in the room, you’re competing with everyone else in that same room by having those same million tracks from LoudEye. The only differentiation is how you want your store to be perceived. Content on the home page can be changed to feature music that may interest your target audience, but is that the point?

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention, BurnLounge.com’s start-up fee is $144.00 or so, plus a montly subscription fee of around $12. So you’ve got to sell a lot of downloads to make up that estimatged $360 for the year, before you even can think about turning a profit.

Again, I’m not saying it’s a bad idea. It can work for some people. If you’re a Music Mogul and you sign up 100 sites that are premium brands, and they use the technology effectively and market to their customers, you can stand to make that $50K a month in commissions.

It’s the slackers that will kill you. Sign 100 restaurants and lounges and hope that they upadate their music pages and promotional web sites on a timely basis. Make the sites an integrated experience with the brick and mortar operation and maybe you’ll see some traction, but when it comes to online production, it’s tedious work just like any other data entry job. Why do you think we’re outsourcing all this data entry work to India? Because American’s are too busy consuming to do that themselves.
Now remember, you’re competing against major players in the download world; Apple, Sony, Microsoft, Napster, AOL, Yahoo and maybe someday Google. You’re at a immediate disadvantage because the iPod only play AAC and MP3 formats for audio and .mpg and .mov for video.

Major label content downloaded through BurnLounge is encoded with a DRM using other formats that won’t play on an iPod. I’m sure there’s a crack somwhere, but at the end of the day, it’s all about access and portability, isn’t it?

If you’re sitting at home cracking proprietary files, that’s less time you have for the beach, running, work or doing whatever it is you love to do. There’s a reason why million’s have downloaded from the iTunes store–it’s called convenience.
Being a pioneer in the Internet music space, many of my friends from the dance music industry who were at the event asked me what I thought about the program. I told them out of the 150 or so people who showed last night, only 2 (besides the BurnLounge principals on hand) will make any real money. Everyone else will decide that it’s too hard and that no one told them they had to invest so much time, money, energy and passion into something that gave them pennies as a return on their investment.

As for Netmix, would I open open a store? Well, for me it would only be a value-add to my constantly evolving business plan to drive traffic. Kind of a loss leader, like Walmart selling DVD players for $25 and CD’s for $10.

I’m not going to start my own music store, so sure, I’d partner up with BurnLounge to see what happens. It’s a write-off for me if I don’t make my $360 back and maybe I can sell some of the tracks I feature in my mix-shows, who knows?

Do I plan on making money with it? Well, from the looks of the rev/share split, I’ll be on social security by the time I get my first real check. I mean, even though you see all these Google adsense ads on my site, not many people are clicking on them and I’m not really sure why. They’re not as relevant to my content as I’d like them to be, but it’s hard to manage that, unless advertisers came to me directly.
You’d think with about 30 to 50 visitors a day to this blog, I’d be making some money with Adsense and the Amazon program, but I’m not making anything that makes a difference…not yet anyway.

I tell people all the time. The Internet is not the holy grail. You still have to know and understand your customer, provide value and excellent service. That takes time, energy, commitment and possibly an investment of capital. It is what you put into it. I don’t post enough to get a mass audience and it’s slow going. In order to make any real money on the web, you gotta hustle. Just like everything else. Get rich quick schemes only make the ones who think of them rich, and everyone else is used for their brainpower and hard work.
Remember what they say, “if it seems to good to be true, it probably is.” But then again, they also say, “if you can’t beat’em, join’em!” Take your pick!

Here’s my Google ad below…I guess I’m joining them…lol.

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214 comments

  1. GuestGround0 says:

    Hi Tony & Barry.
    Thanks for your inputs both ,I read and try to understand the biz here.
    let me tell you that i'm not retailer or fan. I just want to invest in the company (buying stock shares thus).
    I would like to have an idea : as up to now how much money the company could have made with all the differents fomrulas of sign-in ?
    Any idea?
    Would appreciate to know too , as xmas and new year is close, do you see some traffic increase in you store ?

    Appreciate any comment.
    GuestGround0

  2. Tony Zeoli says:

    To Barry:

    No, you did not say that Ticketmaster would be burned into the groud. My point to you is that you're so caught up in the fact that you think the company is a watershed moment in the history of music distribution, but because my perception is that your sole goal is to "make money" just for the sake of making money, that you're not scrutinizing the company carefully and you're not doing the homework any investor into any idea needs to do before they toss their time and money into a project.

    You, of all people, should have known about this deal with Ticketmaster. I'm relatively certain, given my thorough knowledge of new media and partner development in the web world, that Ticketmaster WOULD NOT give the same access to tickets to BurnLounge that they have on their own site. And, SINCE THAT ANNOUNCEMENT, which happened some time ago, there has been no further movement or integration of Ticketmaster into BurnLounge. How long is it going to take to make it happen? Why isn't it done already?

    I do not believe that selling Tickets through the MLM pyramid will be a successful endeavor. But, that's just my opinion.

    To GuestGround:

    I advise you to carefully scrutinize the company's business plan and its contracts. No one knows how much the company has made, because that is not public information. They are not a public company, so there are no SEC requirements to report revenues to the public and investors as of yet.

    No one knows exactly how many registered BurnLounger's there are, and how many of those are "active" meaning that after they signed up, how many others have followed, and how many continue to activelly participate in getting more people to sign up.

    You can sign up all the moguls you want, but there will be a tipping point when mogul sign-ups slow down. Then you'll have to depend on sales, and there's going to be a certain amount of "churn." That's the word the cable industry uses to describe subscribers who leave the company equal to the number of new subscribers. Once you get to a certain point and you start losing more subs to your new sign-ups, you've got a problem.

    I suggest you do your homework my friend. I hold stock in Real Networks. They have a deal with Samsung, in which they've created their own player and have a successful rental download business with over 1 Million registered users. They are more successful than Napster, and have no sign-up fees. The company has been in business since the early 90's and hold patents on streaming technology. They are in a far greater position to compete at a high level than BurnLounge is today. Even Napster is in a better positioin than BurnLounge. A music portal must have a cohesive message and serve their audience from a central point. All these BurnLoungers out there promoting willy nilly with no clear message, to me, is a disaster waiting to happen.

    BurnLounge spends more time and effort marketing to their internal members than they do to the public. They are more interested in signing up new moguls, than selling music to the public. That's the message I get from them, and that can only last so long.

    Take it from me, I would never buy stock in this company. It looks too good to be true, it usually is.

    Tony

  3. GuestGround0 says:

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  4. Barry says:

    Guestground –

    Tony, while possibly well intentioned on some level, has no real-world knowledge of the MLM industry, which is why he keeps referring to Burnlounge as a too good to be true and therefore headed for disaster or whatever pessimistic things he comes up with. He just doesn't understand it. He DOES NOT understand it.

    Tony – I've said this how many times now – music now, but will also have concert tickets, movies, cell phones, e-books, ring tones and whatever else digital they can bring into it. I saw stories on CNBC last week where they were discussing the challenges that Wal Mart and Blockbuster are facing because of the threat of digitally downloadable movies negating the need to physically buy or rent a dvd. Well, my half-glass-empty friend, my understanding is that movies are the next target of Burnlounge.

    Regarding my not knowing the exact details of the ticket deal, as I said the day I did my first post here, I'm new to this.

    Tony, this company just launched a few months ago. It's not going to be perfect overnite. Be patient – you'll have plenty of time to realize that you should have gotten in months ago.

  5. Barry says:

    Tony, well intentioned but way in the dark Tony –

    What I don't understand about the digital media business is greatly outweighed by the lack of MLM knowledge that is stopping you from understanding WHY doing these same things via MLM makes more sense than conventional methods, thereby making them NOT "too good to be true". Take the cell phones for example – what is in my estimation $millions that these other 'players' have to put into advertising and startup costs – it won't have to happen thru Burnlounge or any other MLM company. Look at it this way as an example – "Mr. or Mrs. Cell Phone Manufacturer, here's what we're gonna do. You're gonna manufacture a phone and set up the calling plans. Outside of brochures, you're never going to have to spend a dime on advertising, and you're never going to have to spend a dime on storefronts or kiosks, and you'll never have to hire a single salesperson because we already have (factoring it being in the future) 150,000 eager, straight commission, 1099, independent contractors ready and willing to sell your phones to their friends and famillies, and of course to themselves. Because you won't be going the standard advertising, hiring and storefront routes of conducting your business, you'll obviously save millions of dollars per year. So you need to give us a good deal or you're wasting our time. Oh, and the brochures you'll be making, our reps will be buying them from you, just as in every other MLM program out there, so they won't really cost you anything in the long run either. I think we can work a deal, don't you?"……….

    Now, hopefully someday to be seeing the light Tony, what if the number of reps reaches 500,000?

    Tony that's how every MLM program out there works, there's NO reinventing the wheel here – NONE!!! Ask ANY MLM nutritional supplement company if they're having "problems" competing with GNC. Ask Amway if they're having "problems" competing with Wal Mart. Ask Mary Kay or Arbonne if they've having "problems" competing with any cosmetics company out there. Meanwhile, when's the last time you saw a company paid ad or commercial for Amway, or Advocare, or Shaklee, or Melaleuca, or Mary Kay, or Advocare, or Arbonne, or Vemma, or Xango, or Matol, or Primerica or any other MLM compnay? There's a whole slug of MLM companies selling a huge range of products from soap to supplements to air fresheners to insurance etc. that you've never seen an ad for, nor will you ever, because they don't have to – they've got armies of straight commission sales reps doing it all for them.

    Maybe this will help you understand why it's not a too good to be true thing.

    Oh, I'm at $470 thus far, my total outlay was $477. And my downline hasn't even started working it yet. Plus I'm on vacation. Meanwhile I ain't even got the credit card statement yet and it's basically paid off. And there's approximately $500 waiting for me because of the people my upline placed below me. This is just the beginning of course. YES Tony I've spent time on this, but not nearly as much as my insurance business. It's only just begun.

  6. Tony Zeoli says:

    Barry:

    Thanks for at least saying that I'm "well intentioned."

    Here's the deal: It doesn't matter whether or not I have MLM experience, because what I do have is a fundamental understanding of digital media and the entertainment industry. I wouldn't be a VP of Music at Entertainment Media Works, a funded entitiy with 50 full and p/t resources in three cities if I didn't know what I was talking about.

    Let's forget about the MLM structure and talk about cell phones. You've got Boost, Amp'd and a bunch of other small players already buying time on the Sprint/Cingular/Verizon backbones. All those companies are hurting for customers, and Sprint/Cingular/Verizon's industry churn is a constant. Do you really think that hundreds of people are going to drop their standard cell plan to have a cell plan with BurnLounge? I can't WAIT for that to happen. BurnLounge doesn't even have good customer service for its moguls, never mind a potential couple of hundred thousand cell phone subs. Do you really think that the music heavy BurnLounge would ever compete with the established brands and the companies that buy time on those networks. Do you realize what the costs and barriers to entry are? You have absolutely no idea. It's just not that easy, my friend.

    You talk about MLM, but you have almost zero fundamental understanding of digital media at its core. Forget the argument about MLM, let's talk about the costs of doing business!

    Whether or not Blockbuster or Walmart continue to sell or rent DVD's doesn't matter. BurnLounge moguls would be faced with competing with BitTorrent and other established companies with millions of dollars (or billions like YouTube) who will crush any hope of BurnLounge taking a slice of the downloadable movie pie. Not to mention the fact that not many people are even paying for downloadable movies at this point.

    What you don't realize, my friend, is that there aren't a lot of people out there who are going to buy movies from BurnLounge, when they can get them through BitTorrent, a company that already have deals with the major studios. And, BurnLounge can't afford, with their minimal investment capitalization to be attacking all these markets that you speak of.

    Once you understand digital media from its cost center, then you'll see what I'm talking about. But you sit on the OUTSIDE, my friend, looking in; rying to get into something you missed the boat on years ago. I'm not trying to insult you, but here you are, today, throwing money at the wall and hoping it sticks.

    Tell me, in the last few weeks, since we started this, have you broken even yet?

    Tony Z.

  7. Tony Zeoli says:

    Barry:

    One word, "Excel." Where are they now?

    There's a huge difference in the product mix between the companies you are talking about and the digital media strategy of BurnLounge.

    People go to cell phone stores to purchase cell phones, they don't have cell phone parties at home with all their friends. I don't see that happening in my lifetime.

    My friend, I am not a pessimist. I'm a realist.

    You, on the other hand, REFUSE to look at any of the barriers to entry or even acknowledge that any exists. In any business plan, there's always a reverse outlook of the challenges companies face in getting into a market. You have NOT ONCE ever acknowledged that there are barriers to entry.

    That my friend, is misleading. A good salesman knows there's an upside and a downside. You must be willing to admit the downside and overcome it, or no one will believe you.

    Tony Z.

  8. Barry says:

    Yeah you got me, Excel went down, so why waste my time here, right? Then with the Tower Records bankruptcy – WHY are you wasting your time in the music industry? Exactly, neither makes sense.

    Tony, lemme tell you a secret, but you have to promise to not tell anyone – EVERYTHING HAS A DOWNSIDE. But what you consider to be downsides in this case are not as as prevalent as you think they are. The difference here is that I'm looking at the upsides, and you're harping on the impending doom. Because again, you don't understand how the MLM aspect of this will make it succeed. And here's a perfect example –

    The cell phones – a friend of mine used to be an independent cell phone rep. His prices were the same as the cell phone stores. I bought my phone from him. So did at about 10 other people I know. Why did we buy from him instead of going to the store, and why did we refer him to other people? Because he came to us, right to our offices, with the dummy phones and everything. Signed us up right at our desks. And there was no "cell phone party" either (c'mon man…). So don't tell me that people won't buy from individuals. They do it all the time. And while granted the commission off of a single cell phone sale ain't exactly gonna make a house payment, a whole network of people below you doing the same thing can.

    And regarding the music downloads, there are already a few people who are going to download their music thru my Burnlounge store instead of where they were getting it before. Wasn't hard to get them to do it either – I think I just asked…………….

  9. Christopher says:

    Great information here…. thanks tony….

    All of you are right and thats why i joined this post.

    Those of you speak of MLM and all the terms around business that come along with it. We have all been caught up at least once. And should be wise and learn.

    So thats how all of you are right.

    In 2002 I researched on how i can open my own so called "ITunes" or digital download store. With little to no services that deal with independent ventures unless willing to pay thousands on thousands of dollars a month to even think about starting one.

    I continued searching, Becuase i own an independent production label and Im constantly looking for new distribution models as i feel my artist should be distributed in every internet store I can find. Good distribution results as we tell others where to go to get our music hoping that customer has a account. We,ve noticed few results becuase itunes and the rest can only promote so much music thru there front pages etc. and most have never downloaded online before (offline) and do not have accounts and with itunes or any other store. Also they are not willing to give credit/debit card and become a FREE customer.

    Itunes, along with a list of over 200 branded online stores allows us to market and distribute on a world wide scale, till this day this list has not given us any promotion power to allow customers to hear our music and is very time consuming to manage.

    Until a few days ago i see burnlounge banner and after 2 days of research I cant ask for a better service for my artist, customers, friends and family.

    1. Now my artist are getting all the promotion from thousands of burnlounge members promoting there stores.

    ( Its free to get your music on burnlounge without a account for free. and is displayed thru all stores for sells and i make more then Itunes.)

    2. Now customers i send to buy my music has over 2 million albums to choose from and I get paid if they buy somthing else. not just itunes.

    3. Now Me and my family buy music from our store and save more money then buying music from Itunes… even if under there affiliate program.

    4. Now my tools include gift certificates and cards to give away that customers can use for free music or there own burnlounge. Frontburner and BMS application that gives stats on burnlounge as a whole business need the best organizing and reports to stay focused. and too much to explained all for 29/yr and 6.95 a month.

    I still use the other services just to be available to customers on a world wide scale.

    We all are apart of the music business in some form.. if you just like music like most of us then this is not for you… Just use burnlounge or any other service you buy from and thats that.

    If you want to be apart of the music business meaning investment, time, effort, and all the other things needed in any business this this my be for you.

    Thanks again for reading

    Heres what your not seeing that changes everything.

    Yes, i have a joined this venture.

    This company was LOUDEYE purchased by "MUZE" a Burnlounge Partner!

  10. Tony Zeoli says:

    Barry,

    I've lived the downside, so I don't need to be schooled. Great that you're so positive about BurnLounge, but the fundamental questions that have been asked here and elsewhere never seem to be answered.

    Whatever you want to say about MLM and how great it is, that's fine. In BurnLounge's case, they have specific problems that need to be addressed, and I don't see that taking place any time soon to alleviate my concerns. I will continue to evangelize for the truth about BurnLounge in their marketing, in their sales techniques and other areas that I am in complete and total disagreement with.

    Wish you the best of luck with it. Report back in next year with your comments and we'll all see how far you got. You seem to be spending more time trying to sell me on the concept, and I ain't biting. There's a whole world out there to sell, so you'd better get cracking! Oh right, I forgot, BurnLounger's aren't allowed to create their own marketing materials. Hmmm… I guess the pie just got that much smaller.

  11. Barry says:

    Christopher you'll get 0 agreement here from anyone who's not in Burnlounge. They don't understand MLM, and no matter what kind of info you provide that's positive, you'll get a negative aspect about it back in response. Since it's not perfect, it's apparently a waste of time.

    To Tony, having that $20 per month requirement is a negative. "People shouldn't have to have a requirement like that – how dare this company think that they have the right to FORCE people (to do business)", etc…….. He completely ignores that fact that people agreed to it up front and don't mind it. If you go back to the very beginning, it's crystal clear that most of his arguments against this company are based on the fact that he simply doesn't understand it. And then when it's explained to him, he comes up with other things – such as (and I'm not making this up) that it doesn't cater to non-English speaking people. Well darn…………..

  12. josh says:

    i only read the first few but the people that got so upset are fucking retarded. i am in burnlounge and it is bullshit and i knew that going in but theres one person in the world that i would get into this for and so i did. if anyone else brought this to me i would have said no. maybe someday i will post some real numbers on here so people can see the truth of the money that the LARGE MAJORITY will not make. i understand how people can get sucked into it but sit down and do some math. you may be lucky and make a shit load but the people under you are probably gonna lose money. i have done enough math to figure this out, and by the way you don't have to go very far to see that. this is a real guess but maybe 5 MAYBE 10 % will make back there investment plus make a profit. you make money by getting people "under" you, not selling music. that is the sad truth from someone who is in it. anyone tells you otherwise is wrong, i'm sorry. i don't think the owners are greedy evil people. in fact, everything i've heard about them(from people who have sat down and had meetings with them) say how genuine and motivated they are about the company. I'm not trying to put down the company, i wish them success. I mean, i 've got money in this thing too! the only thing that bothers me would be people with not alot of extra cash, maybe even charging the fees (me), thinking this is gonna be "extra grocery money" as one burnlounge rep put it. that was part of the schpeel. saying it can be anywhere from extra grocery money to a full-time money making beast. if you don't have the money to throw away, i would suggest you not get involved, being your chances of making that money back are slim. if you do happen to make your money back and some, your friends underneath you will be a bit upset ( like me and the 7 or 8 under me that i'm sure will never even make back there startup costs. burnlounge says we're unmotivated? i own my own home-improvement business so motivation is not the issue here. It just won't work for most people. Bypass the flashy ads and what people say "so and so" made and do the math. I believe you will agree. Sorry.

  13. Barry says:

    Josh there's no mystery to this program – if you work it you have a definite chance to make money at it, and I know people who are making very consistent money at it. If you don't work it there is no chance whatsoever you're gonna make any money – period. The 7 or 8 people you said are under you, did they come in with the expectation that they were going to make money just by joining? Because if they're under that impression, someone BS'ed them. It's just like anything else – work it and you'll get paid, don't, and you won't.

  14. josh says:

    Oh and i kind of grazed thrugh a few more of the other posts. those talking about the papa john franchise thing. you're right. those papa johns will probably make the investors money though by selling pizza not by then selling other people franchises. I hope the people posting why the general public should buy in are sincere in which case I don't have any bad feelings for them at all. If they are trying to "build there business" (turn a buck) then when they stop making money from this business, I hope they feel the wrath of Mr. Heat Miser. damn i want some pizza now.

  15. josh says:

    i agree 100%. And by work that means get more people under you. I can’t “hype ” people into it like most do. I’ve told a few people about it, but never tried to “”sell” anyone on it. It’s a good system for some people but NOT the large majority. Here’s a bit of math for you. Burnlounge is all about the music right? Well here’s something more than Burnlounge hype.
    Some famous musicians are being advertised as having Burnlounge stores. This is touted as such a big deal…good enough for them than it’s good enough for us. Famous musicians are great at what they do, play music, on average they are no smarter or business savy than the average American. Some are very much so, some not so much. So don’t look to them for a reason to get into Burnlounge. It makes sense for anyone selling a fair amount of cd’s on there store. Now some math.

    The cost of the best burnlounge store is about $450. Your monthly fees for a year are roughly $165 ($13.80 per month). Grand total for a year: $615
    This store allows you to sign up people under you for which you recieve $50 if they by the most expensive store.
    You also receive $.05 for every $.99 download or $.50 for every $9.90 album download.
    You also make money from people under you when they sell albums. $.02 for every $.99 download and $.20 for every $9.90 album download.
    I hope i can spell all this out before i get bored to tears.
    This works for major musicians if they sell enough albums. To make back their yearly fees they will have to sell 12,300 singles or 1,230 albums through their store(615/.05=12,300 : 615/.5=1,230). Now for alot of major-label musicians this isn’t a problem. They get their normal wage of however much from the sale alone plus the extra $.05 or $.50 for an album. Anything over 1,230 albums is pure profit. If thay sell another 50,000 albums through burnlounge in a year they will make an extra $25,000 from their Burnlounge commission(50.000x.50=25,000). Hell Yeah! It is a smart move for them, no doubt about it. They do not however make more as far as regular wages for the song. Some claim they make between $.50 and $.75 per single. This may be be accurate, I’m not positive. They claim this is more than Itunes or other major stores pay them. I am pretty sure it’s kind of an acroos the board thing that they are making more by selling digital albums regardless of who they sell it through. Regardless, we’ve already established that it is a good move for popular artists. For you and I? Well, you’ve seen that you have to sell 1,230 albums to just make back your money. About 100 albums a month. Be aware burnloung does not promote your store. YOU promote it solely, so between your friends, family, co-workers and whoever else, you have to convince them to buy through your store about 100 albums a month just to break even. Good luck with your family and friends let alone the “whoever else”. There is really no incentive to buy through your burnlounge store other than the fact that it is yours. it is no cheaper and in it’s current stage actually inferior to Itunes. When 2.0 comes out it is supposed to fix all the little issues and add a ton of new features. From what I’ve heard it does sound like it’s gonna be a right up there with itunes or any of the others. Let it be known by the way that I’m not downing Burnlounge as a whole. There claim for wealth among the masses is BS though. OK Burnlounge won’t say this but everyone from there top promoters flying around the country to the grass-level, will be preaching this. Not true, no way around it and NOONE i have seen on here or any of the other sites has a rebutal to that. Just ” If you don’t work on it as a business it won’t grow”. True but not the pat answer it sounds to be.
    So 100 albums a month to break even. Now, personnally I love music and am actually somewhat in the business (not my living but I’m still young) and I MIGHT by 2 albums a month. 1 is probably the mor honest answer. Even if I had all the money I wanted for this, there are only so many people out there I want to listen to. Are there even 2 albums a month coming out that I want to buy? maybe. For the sake of this discussion let’s say 1 album a week or 4 a month are average (you all know there ain’t no way). So you would have to find 25 people to buy 4 albums a month regularly to break even( 100/4=25). I hope you see already that this just ain’t gonna happen for the average person, don’t care how hard you try. At one Burlounge promotion I went to the speaker (one of THE TOP guys in this thing by the way) said and i quote (well roughly anyway)” I probaly won’t ever make much money from selling songs thrugh my store. my mother buys her music through there but that’s about it. I make money from the people underneath me.” and they say this isn’t a pyramid. He meant through the music people sell through their stores underneath them but I guaruntee he is making a HELL of alot more through the $50 sign on bonus per person underneath him. They say treat it like a business. OK go make up some flyers and start passing them out, spread the word. By through my store because…because…uh well I make money off of it. Yeah. And what do you get from it? well…how ’bout a free album download for every ten you download through my store! Oh no, then I’d be losing five dollars every ten albums(10 x.50=5 : cost of album? $9.90 : 9.90-5=4.90). oK you’d lose $4.90 every ten sold… I lied, you caught me. How about 1 free every 40 albums bought. you get a free album($10 value) and I make about $10. It takes about 10 months using our inflated average of 4 albums bought a week and you spend $396 on music downloads (9.90×40=396). Damn! how can you guys refute this! People you don’t know aren’t gonna buy through your store just because. Burnlounge doesn’t have anything that the other stores don’t have. If it was $7.99 an album that would be aselling point. If it had exclusive Burnlounge content that would be a plus. (Itunes often does this by the way, as do Wal-mart and some other large chains). Burnlounges only big difference is it is owned by you. Steve Jobbs isn’t getting rich of your dollar… I am HA HA HA! (Funny how many times I’ve heard that about steve jobs). So Steve invents it and he doesn’t deserve that money, I put up my favorite albums on a digtal storefront and i do? God Bless the USA. I know some will say “if you weren’t spending all your time putting down burnlounge maybe you’d make some money. I couldn’ agree more. This last hour spent on the computer could have been used walking the downtown streets in search of potential cusomers. I think I’ll go curl up in a ball now. Seriously I know I haven’t touched on the money made by people selling music underneath you and signing up people underneath you but rest assured, A very few will make a shit load, some will make a good bit, MOST MOST MOST will not makee back there investments. Please don’t post a rebutal. Haven’t I spent enough time on this? I f you do have a reply though I’m sure my dumbass will sit here for another hour and type up something that only afew of you will take the time to read. Let me note that I have never posted on a blog until now (truthfully). But I know this subject (unfortunately) fairly well and there is ALOT of shit flying around. Just in case you thought i liked to argue about nothing just ’cause i can. Well yas wrong! Forgot to mention burnlounge will offer movies and from what I hear video games and tickets online soon. Maybe even books(?). Knew some of you would come back with that one. Still nothing you can’t find on another store. If you know 25 people willing to buy 4 albums a month “GET IN”. When the other content comes you might even make a profit if you can get them to by more shit from you’re store cause they like ya. If your gonna refute this don’t write 2 lines, put some time into it. I’m begging. Don’t just say something stupid so I can waste more of my substantial free time. Your turn BIATCH! just kidding calm down.

  16. Barry says:

    Josh, you're only looking at the short side of this – lemme put it this way – the guy who signed me up has placed about 10 more people on my A side than I have on my B side. So if my A side completely stops and all I do is place people on my B side, I'm gonna make $100 on each of the next 10 people I place myself ($50 from the sign up and $50 from the points matching with my A side), plus have 1000 more points left over on my B side to pay me more as my A side continues. Not to mention the points that I'll receive by my B side downline placing people too.

    Nobody has ever tried to hide the fact that this is MLM. MLM and pyramids are NOT THE SAME!!! Pyramids have no product and are strictly money driven. This obviously has a product with more to come right around the corner.

    One of my friends just got into this maybe 9 weeks ago. In her first 30 days she generated $8000 in commissions. Now as I said, she recently got in, she was not one of the originals, not even close. So it comes down to what I've repeatedly said here – if you don't work it you ain't making squat, but if you DO work it you can make good money. The people who don't make back their investments simply did not work it – it's no more complicated than that. It's MLM Josh, not a free ride. MLM's are ALL predicated on people bringing in people. There's no secret there.

  17. Barry says:

    HERE TONY – JUST FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Straight from the FAQ section of the individual Burnlounge sites –

    Will music from BurnLounge play on an iPod?

    No. BurnLounge music comes in a protected Windows file. iPods can not play protected Windows files. This is why Apple ipods can not play music from most online music services with the exception of Apple itunes.

    Apple uses their proprietary copy protection, so only Apple-compatible sound files can be used on iPod. Apple would have to change their policy and open up support for other formats to allow Windows Media files to play on iPods.

    Our music files use DRM-protected (Digital Rights Management) WMA (Windows Media Audio). DRM-protected WMA is what ensures that you can legally acquire the license to play, transfer, sync, and burn music for your own, non-commercial use. Most digital music online stores, with the exception of iTunes, use DRM-protected WMA files. As a result, you can play the music we offer on hundreds of portable devices.

  18. Tony Zeoli says:

    Barry:

    Which individual BurnLounge site? Post the link.

    As far as your first post about your friend making $8K, that's great that she's selling other people packages, but is anyone buying music?

    Have you started selling any music? You can have tens of thousands of stores in the chain, but if no one is selling any music and simply selling each other a dream, who cares?

    All this A and B money changing hands doesn't prove anything to anyone. What's the sustainable business model?

    Zune is tanking this Christmas, and the iPod Shuffle is the new toy. You tell me when BurnLounge makes sense, because I still don't see it.

    Tony

  19. Josh says:

    Yeah Barry. I am not disagreeing with anything you are saying. And you are in a way (without trying to put words in your mouth) agreeing with what I am saying. This is an MLM (didn't realize there was a differnece there) and you will not make money unless people are under you. It's just that Burnlounge is so hyped on the music and so is every promoter. It's simply not the money-maker here and since you have yet to argue this point, i think you agree (again not trying to put words in your mouth. Music will be bought , yes. Money will be made by selling music, yes. But the money-makers here are getting rich off of getting people underneath them. From what you have written it seems like this is obviously just the way it is "no secret". If you are getting people to buy in by telling them " this is an MLM, you will make your money by getting people under", I don't think I can argue with that. It's still BS but at least your up front. Burnlounge is hyped on the music and getting "music stores" under you. This ain't Papa John's. Damn now I want pizza AGAIN! no i am not a fat ass.

    I wish you would just agree that MOST people wil lose money. You seem pretty knowledgeable about the whole subject so you must realise this. It's not a matter of opinion, it's very simple. And most people (myself included) will not renew after a year. At least amway has an original product. Burnlounge has nothing original to sell. Make your money but keep your day job. Nobody will retire off Burnlounge. I bet in 5 years it's not even remembered. Thank God. Though I have deffinetly learned a life lesson through all this. I am signing off for good now. God Bless and be true to yourself (whenever convenient).

  20. Barry says:

    Josh where's the difference between the people at the top making the most money as compared to the people at the bottom in this or any other company out there? I can tell you where – with a company like this at least the newer ones coming in actuallly HAVE the chance to make good money at it. Nobody getting involved with this company is "getting stuck in the mailroom" so to speak. You work it, you'll make money. Period.

    What % of people will lose money in it and won't renew – I just don't know. But the fact remains that if someone loses money at this it's because they simply didn't work it. And it's NOT BS as you claim. Why is it BS? It's no different than any other MLM out there. And everyone has the chance to build a downline, so what's the problem? If you're not MLM saavy I at least understand where you're coming from, but that doesn't make the program wrong.

  21. Tony Zeoli says:

    Josh, thanks for your comments.

    My take on Barry's opinion is, truthfully, that I'm growing weary of his inability to convey any semblance of a commitment to selling music to consumers. From what I've read so far, Barry hopes to make his millions subscribing other BurnLoungers underneath him. He wants those people to do all the heavy lifting of marketing the service to music consumers and actually selling music, in way that is merchandised correctly, on these web sites.

    If I were an artist, I would scream at the top of my lungs to make sure that BurnLounge did not allow its moguls to place my music alongside music of artists where it didn't belong, who I didn't want to be associated with or where I wouldn't receive the maxium amount of visibility given my popularity in the marketplace.

    If I'm an artist, I'm pointing my fans to one place, not 30,000 individual online retailers to get my product, so I know who is marketing me correctly. Sure, there's the theory of the Long Tail, but if you may not even appear on those 30,000 sites unless that retailer asked to sell your product and merchandised your correcty.

    I can go on an on, but the main point I'm trying to make here is: Barry knows absolutely nothing about music sales and everything about MLM. That leaves one to ponder the question, why should I buy music from Barry? Why should I even care about Barry, if all he wants to do is to make money for the sake of making money, and not from contributing in some way to–I'm thinking in his mind–the lofty ambition of simpling selling music to music fans in a reasonably successful fashion.

    Let's get even more real here…

    Barry, you bore me with your MLM promotion. You bore me with your vision of soley making money off the backs of others hard work. You bore me with your entire argument.

    That being said, people like you should have no business in the music business. At least Warren Buffet likes playing the stock market game. That's what he's good at. He made millions, no billions, being good at something.

    Barry, to me, the only thing you're good for is to hype a product. You have no understanding of merchandising, music marketing or the digital music space. I have to tell you that you're on investment is making a deal with Ticketmaster, while you're out there arguing BurnLounge will take over Ticketmaster. Should I continue? I don't want to embarrass you, but to me, you have no clue what's going on in the digital music space.

    I'm not trying to insult you Barry. I'm just telling you the truth and what everyone around me is saying about you and your comments. They think you only care about making money off sign-ups. If that's what you are solely interested in, then good luck to you, because no on is going to help you.

    As an insider in the music biz, let me give you a reality check. People in this business want to know that other people are committed to the idea of moving along the business of music, and not moving along the business of making money in an MLM ponzi-scheme. They want to work with like minded, passionate people who support artists in the communal philosophy of exposing new music to the masses so they can ENJOY IT! What you're promoting is not the enjoyment of the music people buy from you, but the dollar value you put on every BurnLounger who signs up underneath you. That, my friend, is called GREED, not making money. People who make money, do it by contributing something to society and get something in return. When you operate an MLM, are you really making money, or are you just shifting assets that will one day be argued over in bankruptcy court?

    That being said…

    For all those who enter in as BurnLounger's today to sell music and merchandise properly while marketing effectively…good luck to you. I do wish you success. If you use their tools to sell music in the right way to people who want it, then more power to you.

    For all those who enter in as BurnLounger's today to get other people to sign up as moguls so you can win on the back end without lifting a finger to move music forward…you are on my radar and I will continue to write passionately against your success. I think what you are doing is disgusting, misleading and hightly problematic and I just won't stand for it. It's my right to debate you and show everyone how you'll come here to argue about why BurnLounge is so great, but never discuss selling music, which is what the company is supposedly based on.

    Tony

  22. Barry says:

    To the 8 or 9 people reading this, please put the children in the other room for a moment – – – –

    Please don't gimme that shit about not trying to insult me – go back and re-read your post……. And you're right, you DO have the right to voice your opinion, as do I in response until you decide that freedom of speech does not apply to me here because I too strongly disagree with you –

    As I've shown you how many times before already, you don't know what you're talking about. How many times do I have to explain the same things over and over again before you'll understand what's being said?

    "Making money off the backs of those below me" is a PERFECT example. Do you think the people way above me are doing that while they're traveling all over the country on their own dimes doing group presentations for the guests of the current burnloungers, paying for their own airline tickets and rental cars and hotel rooms and meals and the fees to rent places to give presentations with the audio and video equipment that they bought themselves? If I make myself available to every person I sign up to explain the program to the people they talk to until they're comfortable doing it on their own and help them on a continual basis, am I taking advantage of those below me? Your physiological incapability to understand what's going on here or how it works does NOT translate to me being greedy. You simply have no idea what you're talking about, yet insist on saying the same crap over and over again.

    Calling it a "MLM ponzi scheme" is ANOTHER direct example of you being clueless as to this side of the business. If you had any idea what you're talking about, you'd realize that an MLM program is a DIRECT OPPOSITE OF A PONZI SCHEME. But you obviously don't know enough about either to speak intelligently about them, YET YOU CONTINUE TO DO SO ANYWAY. TONY, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!!!

    You did NOT have to tell me about the deal with the tickets, I TOLD YOU ABOUT IT AND THEN YOU LOOKED IT UP AND FOUND AN ARTICLE ABOUT IT. I told you I was NEW to this when I mentioned it, that they had discussed it and that I didn't know the details. Well give yourself a button, you found an article that showed the agreement had already happened. AND BY THE WAY, I NEVER, NEVER EVEN ONCE SAID THAT BURNLOUNGE WAS GOING TO TAKE OVER TICKETMASTER – ALL I SAID WAS THAT IT WAS GOING TO BECOME AVAILABLE THRU BURNLOUNGE. YOU SAID THAT I SAID IT, BUT IT NEVER HAPPENED. So to the other 9 people who are reading this – go back and look thru the posts yourselves and try to find that I said that Burnlounge was going to take over Ticketmaster, then come back here and post who the delusional one is between Tony and I… The only place where I "said it" was where I criticized you for claiming that I said it. Go ahead, prove me wrong…

    I don't know anything about selling music? I know this, the people in Burnlounge are selling music, and I'll bet you that in about a year to 18 months Burnounge will become the biggest supplier of digital music in the country. And nobody successful is going to give a damn whether it's being done Burnlounge's way, or your way. How about you Tony, are you "selling your music"? I see you're fishing for donations, so I'm wondering how well YOU'RE doing at it while you espouse your opinions about all that's wrong in the music world.

    You'd be screaming at the top of your lungs about what Tony? Lemme ask you a question – are you smarter than Ticketmaster? Maybe you should be telling Ticketmaster how to run their business, ya think? You mean they had the audacity to not consult with you first????? Unbelieveable…

    Ya know, I've been trying to keep this factual and not personal, and believe me I've read enough of your stuff to have you PEGGED. I've been in sales for over 20 years dealing with the self employed and small to medium sized business owners, and you're like one big open book with really big letters. Maybe in the grand scheme of things YOU'RE the one who doesn't get the music BUSINESS Tony.

  23. Tony Zeoli says:

    Okay Barry, let me correct a few factual errors:

    1) YTD over 160K unique visitors to Netmix.com. That’s a little more than you thought.

    2) Freedom of Speech is alive and well. I moderate these responses and I always post your comments, sometimes against my better judgement. 🙂

    3) Of all those people giving presentations and generating excitment about the BurnLounge revolution, you still don’t seem to address the basic fundamentals of online music marketing and music sales. You continue to talk about how to get people involved, while many of the readers to this column wonder what your true motivations are. Are you in the music business? Or, are you in the business of selling BurnLounge mogulships? Which is it Barrry? What church do you attend? The business of supporting recording artists with your personal efforts to help them achive their goals and dreams, or simply to get a bunch of other people on board underneath you so they can sell music for you, and you sit back and do nothing? Whatever you think I’m psychologically incable of, you seem to be incredibly adept at avoidance. What are you personally doing to drive music sales from your store?

    4) A ponzi scheme, by definition from dictionary.com:

    American Heritage Dictionary
    Pon·zi scheme (pŏn’zÄ“) Pronunciation Key
    n. An investment swindle in which high profits are promised from fictitious sources and early investors are paid off with funds raised from later ones.

    I know BurnLounge doesn’t have “fictituous sources,” because I’ve met some of the management team and their web site lists their management team. However, I still maintain there isn’t as much clarity as their should be about how the BurnLounge system operates before you join. It’s only after you buy in that you learn more.

    Maybe BurnLounge isn’t a true “ponzi scheme” according to the true meaning of the word, but it certainly does promise profits if you invest your own money in it, and that, to me, touches on ponzi.

    5) Barry, let me correct you. You never told me about the deal with Ticketmaster. You simply said, BurnLounge will be selling tickets soon and that they will surpass Ticketmaster in terms of sales because of the power of the BurnLounge revolution.

    You never informed me of the partnership between BurnLounge and Ticketmaster. I’d read about it months before your rant, and simply searched for an posted the article to show you what you should have known yourself before you brought it up.

    Your inability to research your own investment clearly shows me that you don’t research your investments. If I were an investor in BurnLounge in any way, shape or form. Believe me, I’d be all over Yahoo! News looking for answers before I spent any money.

    6) It’s a sad fact Barry, but you’re totally wrong about who cares who is selling music. Artists are a fickle bunch. They don’t want to be treated as a commodity by you, BurnLounge or anyone else for that matter. I have been in and around the music industry since I was 7-years old. I talk to recording artists everyday. I’ve sat on music panels at some of the world’s most influential music industry conferences. I am the VP of Music at StarStyle.com. Barry, I’m sorry to say, but my credentials in music blow yours out of the water. I know more about the digital music business than you may ever know, because I live it and breathe it everyday. In fact, I go to NYU at night for Digital Media Management, where I am a 3.5 GPA student. So, while you try your best to enter the music industry by buying your way in, I am committed to it heart, mind and soul. I know the captains of the industry, and they are forever finding ways to sell music, but they all know that at the end of the day, their artists control the image. There are many top tiers artists now who control what sites they are sold on, and there may already be some who have said no to BurnLounge. So, when you get off your self-important, greedy soap box and come down to the real music industries level, I’ll show you how much people care. That just shows how little you know and how much you need to learn.

    7) As far as if I’m selling my music or not. If you knew anything about music licensing, and clearly you don’t or you wouldn’t be trying to diss me, you’d know that I’d have to license every track in my three hour mix sets for between $500 and $5,000 on average in order to sell a mix compilation to the public. In a three hour show, there can be anywhere from 25 to 50 records. That means tens of thousands of dollars in licensing fees. No Barry, I don’t sell my music, because I can’t afford those fees. And, if I do a mix a month, that means every month I have to shell out tens of thousands of dollars.

    What I choose to do instead, if pay broadcast royalties through Live 365 for Internet streaming, so the artists I play get paid for each online spin. Of course, you probably don’t know this, because you’re not a record industry guy. So, I suggest you purchase the book, “This Business of Music” and start reading, cause you’ve got a lot to learn.

    8) I do what I do for the love of it. I have a day job, so I don’t need to go out and sell advertising for my site. I have a banner ad network that does that for me, and Google Adsense. All told, I don’t make enough money to run my site profitably every month. I aske for donations to help me cover my costs. Does anyone donate? Of course not, but I can still ask my fans and if they choose to help me, that’s great. If not, that’s fine too. But at least I’m not selling them on something they can’t get out of. They know, Tony runs a web site, he’s asking for a donation, I don’t get anything in return and Tony’s a good guy, so heck, might as well giv’im somethin.

    9) I’m not smarter than Ticketmaster, or I would be Ticketmaster. What kind of insult is that? Can’t you do better?

    Tony

  24. Barry says:

    Thank you for letting me prove that you don't pay as much attention to my posts when you respond, like I said earlier – I say 1+1=2 and you say no it's not, it's red…..

    I said the following –

    "Your physiological incapability to understand what’s going on here or how it works does NOT translate to me being greedy."

    You responded with –

    "Whatever you think I’m psychologically incable of, you seem to be incredibly adept at avoidance."

    I know, you still don't get it, go back and read it again – – – I used the word "PHYSIOlogically" for a reason, because quite frankly I knew you'd resond to it incorrectly, and you did by saying "PSYCHOlogically". As I've said MANY time here before, you don't really read what you're responding to, which is a big part of why you don't understand this. Oh, you think that's being petty? Here's a better example –

    " 5) Barry, let me correct you. You never told me about the deal with Ticketmaster. You simply said, BurnLounge will be selling tickets soon and that they will surpass Ticketmaster in terms of sales because of the power of the BurnLounge revolution."

    REALLY TONY, I SAID THAT? GO FIND IT!

    On 11/10 at 1:16AM, I posted –

    "They also talked about adding movies, ibooks, tickets, ring tones and cell phones/calling plans and more in the not too distant future, some of which obviously would have a higher profit margin than music downloads."

    On 11/18 at 7:15PM I posted –

    "And as I’ve also said about a million times, RIGHT NOW it’s just music, but they’re working to expand into movies, ringtones, cell phones, concert tickets, games, ebooks and more. So your thing about people running out of things to download holds ZERO water. Yes, Zero."

    On 11/30 you posted –

    "So, Barry, what do you say now?

    Let me say this, that even if Ticketmaster opened up ALL TICKETS to BurnLounger’s to sell, Ticketmaster will still sell infinitely more because of, a. Brand Recognition, and b. they’ll sell at the box office and many BurnLoungers won’t move as fast, with many tickets then unavailable to the BurnLounge buyer.

    It’s not the cash cow you think, my friend."

    TO WHICH I RESPONDED –

    "The way you bring the negative light to things is unbelieveable. Did I ever say that Burnlounge would ever TAKE ON TICKET MASTER AND DRIVE THEM INTO THE GROUND UNTIL THEY BEG TO BE BOUGHT, or did I simply say that one of the products Burnlounge was planning on bringing in was concert tickets? For God’s sake Tony, stop with the drama already. You’re just hell-bent on de-legitimizing this company."

    Please, leave the who said what's to me – I obviously have a better memory for these things.

    If you wanna compare MLMs from ponzis from a physical standpoint, think of it this way – from a marketing and growth standpoint an MLM is shaped like like a typical triangle with the base at the bottom and the point at the top. A ponzi is shaped like an upside down one. And PLEASE, FIND THE SOURCE where you read that Burnlounge "promises profits if you invest your own money in it – SHOW ME WHERE IT SAYS THAT TONY!!! Oh, it doesn't. So I guess you made it up then?

    The Ticketmaster reference wasn't an insult, although I figured you'd take it that way – it's part of my "I got you pegged" theory.

    How many more times are you going to bring up the 'making money off of the backs of those below me while sit up here doing nothing" and have me completely explain to you AGAIN AND AGAIN why your charge is incorrect? Do you pay attention at all? Do you even yet know the reason I give in explanation to that? Maybe I should just keep copy and pasting it over and over and over. Maybe after 15 times or so you'll pick up on it.

    Remember, before you respond, 1+1=blue (or was it red?)

  25. GuestGround0 says:

    Hello to Barry, Tony and Josh,
    .To Tony & Josh :
    I believe with the fact that 90% of people will not make (back) money with burnlounge . But i guess Barry and his recent referred 'friend' will be in the 10% making money selling the 'packages'.
    But one thing is obvious to me, Barry & Josh, you are smart guys having insight view in music field : i would rate you at an virtual IQ of knowing how to do business, let's say i rate you both at IQ=8 on a scale of 10.
    So even you ,both, got caught unfortunately by this MLM Burnlounge story. So think how other people having an IQ lower than you, how easy the temptation for them to get caught by Burnlounge story when they are approached by the skilled sellers like Barry and alike.
    So i think Burnlounge , in its current form , will still make money for awhile , on the back of lot of people, by selling packages.

    To All :
    Did you see Burn Media (owner of Burnlounge) is selling music on theri recent website as low a $.89 a song under some conditions ? I think this is very competitive . And unfortunately , they do it for themself , if only they can offer Burnloung retailer the same thing , i would be nice for you.
    See link http://hypster.storeblocks.com/P-1999999396/C-199

  26. Barry says:

    Only an 8??? C'mon man……………!

    I don't know about Josh, but I didn't get "caught" in anything. MLM is a completely legitimate form of marketing that's been around for many years. And it's a very intelligent decision by almost any company as their way of doing business. Instead of spending potentially huge amounts of money on advertising and promotion of your product with no guarantee of a return, simply give the guy on the street the ability to get a piece of the pie and we'll do the marketing FOR you. And don't look to Tony for any insight into this – he doesn't understand it at all, and he hates it nonetheless. You don't have to read too many of his postings to see that he thinks most of the industry has been bastardized by greedy pigs just looking to make a buck…

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